Q: In your Talkin' Rapture column, “What About Revelation 6:17?”, you wrote,

“Thus, the cry, 'the great day of God's wrath has come,' does not mean that those making this statement are experiencing God's wrath. Rather, it tells us that the mighty men realize that they have entered this final period of judgment, called the Day of God's Wrath, during which God's wrath will be poured out. Indeed, it is only after the completion of the seven trumpet judgments and prior to the outpouring of the bowl judgments, in Rev. 11:18, that we see the actual arrival of God's wrath: `The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints...'”

Does this mean that you don't see the seven trumpet judgments as part of God's wrath? Aren't the trumpets and bowls all God's wrath, but the bowls are described as the “final” part of God's wrath (Rev. 15:1)?

A: Yes, it is my understanding that God's wrath begins with the bowl judgments, not the trumpets. It is the only way that I can see that all of the scriptures relating to God's wrath can be read with perfect consistency. Not all theologians agree with me, of course, not even Marvin Rosenthal or Robert Van Kampen as I understand it, but this is my take.

I am not, however, dogmatic on this point. Whether God's wrath starts with the trumpets or the bowls does not impact the timing of the rapture in any way. What is important is that God's wrath cannot start earlier than the trumpets, undermining one of the most fundamental pillars of the pretrib position.

I will, however, take a closer look at the meaning of this verse, and my reasons for seeing God's wrath as contained in the bowls, in an upcoming Talkin' Rapture column.

Q: I read somewhere that the Lord would judge the world with fire. I have searched and searched and can't find the reference anywhere. I was going over Revelation and noticed that we don't see the Lord using fire as a means of his wrath/judgment until after the seventh seal. Can you help me? Also something that you might already know is that the word “tribulation” is not used after we see those who have come out of the Great Tribulation (Rev 7:14).

A: There is a very good reason that you don't see fire and brimstone used until after the seventh seal. That's because God's wrath is not contained in the seal judgments. Although the seals are part of God's plan for the 70th Week, they are a time of cleansing and purification for the Church, not God's wrath. God's wrath is poured out as part of the Day of the Lord, which starts with the seventh seal. So the fact that you do not see God using fire to judge the world until after the seventh seal is exactly what we would expect.

As for the word “tribulation,” you are right once again. In Matthew 24, Jesus describes the first five seal judgments (corresponding to Rev. 6:1-11), during which the world will finally meet the Antichrist, and the Church and Israel will experience the Antichrist's wrath during the Great Tribulation. In verse 29, however, Jesus says, “After the tribulation of those days...,” then goes on to describe the sixth seal (Rev. 6:12-17), His coming on the clouds, and the raptured Church in heaven. This verse makes it absolutely clear that the Great Tribulation ends before the sixth seal. Thus, the fact that the last mention of the word “tribulation” is Rev. 7:14, referring back to “those who come out of the great tribulation,” is perfectly consistent with this chronology.

As for the exact verses about judgment by fire, you might be thinking of 2 Peter 3:10-12: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?”

Q: Why are the trumpets not the wrath of God?

A: There are several major reasons, which I discuss in Before God's Wrath in Chapter 4, “Defining God's Wrath”:

If God pours out His wrath during the trumpets, He will be pouring out His wrath upon His children. This is in conflict with 1 Thess. 5:9: “For we are not destined for wrath, but to salvation through Jesus Christ, our Lord.” Although it will be too late for post-rapture believers to be taken to heaven without undergoing the rest of the 70th Week, many will come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ when they see Him coming on the clouds after the opening of the sixth seal (Matt. 24:30).

God can no more pour His wrath out upon these new believers than He can upon the Church today — they, too, are His children and will be covered by His promise. How will these believers be protected from the outpouring of God's unrelenting wrath? Many will be martyred by the Antichrist (Rev. 12:17), some will perish during the natural disasters of the trumpet judgments (Rev. 8:1 – 9:21) , and some will likely be protected in the wilderness, along with the remnant of Israel preserved by God (Rev. 12:14). However this protection is accomplished, I see no way that God's wrath can be poured out full force upon all the earth immediately following the rapture, as scripture declares, and still be consistent with this promise.

This in mind, it is interesting that the word “wrath” is not used during the trumpets any more than it is in the seals, except at the end of the seventh trumpet, when the elders say, “God's wrath is come” (Rev. 11:18), indicating an imminent, but still future, event. The fulfillment of this coming wrath occurs in the pouring out of the bowls, where God's wrath is clearly and repeatedly seen (Rev. 16:1-16).

The fact that God's wrath is not contained in the trumpets is confirmed again at the seventh trumpet (Rev. 11:18), when the elders say, “The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints.” Reward for what? What prayers? This goes back to the cry of the martyrs in Rev. 6:10, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” If God has not yet avenged the blood the martyrs, His wrath has not yet been poured out.

During the trumpet judgments, the Antichrist is still strong in his power and might (Rev. 13:5). During God's final period of judgment, however, all earthly power will be crushed (1 Cor. 15: 21–25). If the Antichrist is allowed to continue to rise to power during the trumpets, it is not yet the time of God's wrath.

There are a number of other reasons, as well, which I believe are also covered in Chapter 4. I also touch on this subject in Appendix D, “Do the Three Woes Tie God's Wrath to the Trumpets?”

Q: In the promotional information on your book, you say that there are more than 400 verses that talk about the coming of Christ. I was wondering if you had a list of the 400 verses in an easy e-mail version? I would be interested in seeing this group of scripture.

A: I'm sorry, I don't. I came up with that figure by going page by page through the book, keeping a running tally of the number of different verses that I use to support the prewrath position, but I didn't put them in list form. Not all of these are discrete verses. Some are passages — for example, Matt. 24:29-31 and Matt. 24: 36-44. That's a dozen right there.

What the book does is put them all together, including putting key verses in chart form so you can make comparisons between them. But if you want to do the study on your own, you can use a concordance and look up “coming,” “appearance,” “day of the Lord,” “clouds,” resurrection of the dead, or anything else relating to the rapture. Keep in mind, however, that there are many permutations and it might take awhile to think of them all. But I assure you, they are there in abundance.

Personally, when I look at them all together, as a cohesive whole, they assemble in the kind of perfect picture that is truly a work of God. And the longer I study, the more I continue to find. In the first edition of the book, for example, I overlooked an entire passage in 1 Peter, something that was corrected in the second edition. They're everywhere!

I wish you much success in your study.

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